Interview with Gidi Gidi Maji Maji's James Ogidi

BO: Please introduce yourself and tell us about your music background.

GG: I am Joseph Ogidi, popularly known as Gidi Gidi. I started doing music here in Nairobi way back in 1996 at Aquinas High School. My first official recording was in 1998, which I did with my partner Maji Maji. It was called ‘Ting Badi Malo’ and it became a hit. In 2000 we decided to do an album, Is Marwa, which was more of combining hip-hop and African rhythms. It was a fusion that had never been done before, and that catapulted us to a bigger stage. The year 2002 is when we had a breakthrough with our song called ‘Unbwoggable’, which was not intended to be political, but which got its breakthrough when the NARC government that later came into power used it in their (2002) campaigns and the song turned political. After that is when we got a recording deal in South Africa and…the rest is history.

BO: How did you and Maji (Maji) first meet…was it in school?

GG: Me and Maji were never schoolmates, we were never brothers. We met in Nairobi at a talent-search competition at Florida 2000 (Discotheque). Back then in our youth we used to go for rap competitions every Sunday. So it happened that he was also competing like myself. I was in the finals, he was also in the finals, so at the end of the competition I won, but most of the people who attended the event, among them a producer called Ted Josiah, and he saw something that was unique between the two of us. Both of us were rapping in Luo, and the style was almost similar. He came from Kisumu and I was in Nairobi, and he sort of asked if we could combine forces and form a group. That’s how we ended up being together. After that he contacted us and we went to the studio and that’s how we did our first song called ‘Ting Badi Malo’.

BO: How did you choose the name Gidi Gidi?

Gidi Gidi came from my second name Ogidi. When I was in school I used to do a lot of things: drawing, painting, art, everything. I was just talented in everything, even supporting our basketball team. Every time we went for a match we would compose songs, joke around and all that. Back then people called me Gidi, which doubled to Gidi Gidi, and I decided to use it in my music.

BO: There was a time when you came across as an angry, radical young man. Is that correct…that you wanted to change the system and how music was working?

GG: I can’t call it radical. As young people we were facing a lot of challenges right from where we grew up. We grew up in Dandora (in Nairobi’s Eastlands). Dandora is a place where if you don’t come out strongly you would never make it in life. Bus fare to go to town or to the studio was a problem. And I think that is somehow manifested in our music. Our music was aggressive… we were singing about things we felt about strongly because of the environment in which we grew up. Maybe that’s why most of our music is full of passion. Maybe that’s why it sounded radical.

BO: If you look back were you in any way acting as a voice of protest for the youth…were you articulating something the youth were feeling?

GG: I can say I was doing that unknowingly because I was among the youth who were affected at the time. You know music is about what you feel, it’s about passion, it’s about what you are going through. So maybe I’ve been representing the youth unknowingly because every time we performed we could see the way the youths were reacting, they were kind of angry…so I think the power of the music came out of what we were going through and it was representing what the youth were going through at the time. If you look at a song like ‘Unbwoggable’ you know, we were doing it just like an ordinary song. But then when it came out everyone was reacting like…I am going to vote because I am unbwoggable… and, you know, what we were going through now went out there. So everyone was now feeling the song because of maybe what they were going through. They wanted some change. They wanted to do it by force…they wanted to go out there and change something…which is why I am saying it was what we were going through that affected the music. It just went into them naturally.

BO: How would you describe what was going on. Was it frustration, hopelessness or what?

GG: We did ‘Unbwoggable’ around 2000. We didn’t realize a lot of sales. We actually started asking ourselves why we were doing the music. I remember we took a break of about two years. I remember I was in my second year in campus, and at that time there were a lot of problems. You know, your parents are telling you stop this music and go to school,. And yet you feel like I need to do something else to make more money …there were so many issues. And given your background in Dandora you are really struggling with yourself as a young person. So I took a break from college. One day I just told Maji, Maji I just feel like I am unbwoggable, that I will overcome this thing one day. Let’s go to the studio and record something. So that’s how it all came about. If you listen to the song you can feel that this guys are trying to remove something off their chests, they are so angry and…I can’t explain more…

BO: So, …er… I know it came spontaneously but then what does it really mean…I mean literally and otherwise?

GG: Literally ‘unbwoggable’ comes from the word ‘bwogo’, which is Luo for ‘unstoppable’ or someone who feels fearless… We were playing around with English, so when we mix it it becomes ‘you can’t scare me’ or ‘you can’t stop me’ or something like that. But in other meanings I can say it is a song that is supposed to make you feel proud of yourself, or make you feel like you can overcome all challenges that you are going through. It’s not a war song, but it is a song meant to make you come out of where you are hiding and come out and do something for yourself. It is a song to make you do something positive for yourself.

BO: As you explained you were going through a challenging time, but felt that you would overcome. Is that so?

GG: Yes, that’s right. And we overcame a lot of things. After that we got a big recording deal in South Africa and after that we blew the entire country. It was the biggest song for the campaign and it was all over. We got a lot of contacts, we travelled all over the world. There’s no continent that we haven’t been to to perform. It was a breakthrough! I remember at that time I could not pay my fees and after that I cleared all my fees. It was a blessing!

BO: Did the politicians ever come to you and speak about the song? How was it exactly with you and politicians?

GG: You know when we mentioned some politicians in the song everyone immediately associated it with politics. I remember the first few weeks it was banned on one of our national radio stations. We were shocked! We hadn’t really intended to abuse anybody, we didn’t intend to hurt anybody… we were just singing out of our own passion and all that. So, we were shocked that it was banned on a government station. And after that the other FM stations picked it up and it was big all over. All I can say is that our intention wasn’t really to make it political, but the politicians once they heard that it was popular and that it had been associated with politics they immediately picked it and…we didn’t really have any problem at the time because it was the mood of the country at the time, that they wanted change, and this song brought about something that was like a calling point, a unifying song that brought everyone together and you know, the change came and the rest is history. It played its purpose at that time.

BO: Tell us about the way you express yourself. It is not English it is not Luo or Swahili, you know you were mixing all these languages, creating some slang….

GG: I think it is how we were brought up. We came from the rural areas, settled in Nairobi, went to school in Nairobi and all that. And so you find that when you go home (upcountry) you speak Luo, when you are with your peers you speak Sheng, when you go to school you speak either English or Swahili. So you are surrounded by three environments, and that’s how we used to combine all these to come up with our song, combining Luo, English and Sheng to try and appeal to everybody. It was not something that we sat down and said; Let’s do it this way, no. It just came out naturally. We wanted to sing in a language that is easy for us to communicate in. we were not forcing ourselves. It was just natural, the way we can talk, like say, Sasa! Ni aje? How’s You? You know, something like that…

BO: So in a way you almost broke barriers, right?

GG: We indeed broke barriers because the song cut across everybody, every tribe. Everyone sang along to the song, and you could tell that they didn’t even know it was Luo. They just sang along…and that’s the power of music. Music is not about the language. It’s about how it comes out. ‘Unbwoggable’ broke that language barrier. Even some of our previous songs like ‘Ting Badi Malo’, it was being sung by every person, even wazungus (white people).

BO: If you go back to that Is Marwa album, there was something about the title, is that right?

GG: ‘Is Marwa’ is a phrase we got from the late doyen of opposition politics in Kenya, the late Jaramogi Oginga Odinga who one day said, “Kenya is marwa”… In fact I can say Jaramogi was the first person to combine English and Luo and not Gidi Gidi Maji Maji (laughs). ‘Is’ is English and ‘Marwa’ is Luo, meaning ‘ours’. With the album we were trying to celebrate our African tradition, just trying to go back to our roots because at that time, hip-hop was starting to grow in Kenya, but every artist who was coming up at that time was trying to ape either the Jamaicans or the Americans. So for us we thought, why can’t we do something that we can combine so that we have our own feel of hip-hop. That’s why if you listen to the Is Marwa album, it is not purely hip-hop. It is a mix of rapping but with African tunes, you know, singing African melodies but to a modern beat, you know. It is a very unique album, and I think it is one of our best ever.

BO: You’ve talked about the way ‘Unbwoggable’ opened doors for you. Do you think you got enough credit for this song?

GG: For ‘Unbwoggable’ I can say gave us a bigger platform than we thought we could ever have. For example there was the Gallo Records deal that we got  -- the first Kenyans to get such a deal at that time, and then lots of publicity, we were able to travel all over the world and all that. But for credit…I don’t know how to measure that but I think we got quite a share of it, especially in Kenya, because everywhere we go, if you mention Gidi Gidi they will be like “Yule wa ‘Unbwoggable’” (The one who did ‘Unbwoggable’?) The same to Maji Maji. We are recognized by that song. In fact many people don’t even know that we’ve done several songs. They are not even aware that we have an album and in fact three major albums that all have hit songs. So you need to remind them that no, it is not about ‘Unbwoggable’ alone, that we have ‘Ting Badi Malo’, ‘Is Marwa’ and so many other hit songs.

BO: In 2002 this song was almost an anthem for a revolution. So how did you feel when there was that change of power (political) and your song was part of it?

GG: It was something that became bigger than us. For the first time I am revealing this. There was something …the then government, the KANU government, sent some emissaries to us to try to convince us to sell them the song so that they could have it as their campaign song and we were like…KANU wants to get our song for their campaign and the opposition is already riding with it all over? You know, it was so big at that time I remember we had a meeting over it with Maji, and then we slept over it. The following day we met again, and to be honest, we just told ourselves that we can’t. We’ll be killed. It was quite big at that time. Everyone was talking about ‘unbwoggable’, everyone was talking about change. And so imagine one day we go on air and say that this song is now for KANU (laughs). It was not going to work! But some years later we were like: Maybe we should just have taken their 20 million (laughs again). To be honest, we should have just taken that money and run…actually it was about 8 million, Maji can remember. You can imagine at such a time all this money being flung at you…but we just couldn’t take it because the song became bigger than us. It was not about us anymore. It was about the passion people had at that time for change. People really wanted a new government, a new dawn. You can remember Uhuru Park (rally organized by the Opposition) and how it was packed…it was huge!

BO: So you said no to the 8 or 10 million (shillings) for the sake of change?

GG: Yes, we said no, for the sake of change and for the sake of our own safety (laughs).

BO: Some artists feel the best way to get people to change is to get them to laugh at themselves. You guys use a lot of humour and satire even when you are expressing your frustrations, how’s that?

GG: Since we realized that our music is limited to the people who understand our language we decided to put in a bit of humour here and there to make it more appreciated by everyone who doesn’t understand the language. When we mix Luo and English it makes it more appealing and appreciated by the people who don’t speak Luo. I think it is unique to us because in every song we try to put in a bit of comedy and fun.

BO: What was the mood in the studio on the day when you were recording ‘Unbwoggable’?

GG: Oww…all our studio sessions were always crazy…we try our level best to bring out the best in us. It’s not about just recording. Actually with some of the takes we realized the producer had recorded while we were practicing. It was just natural. We always try to be natural in the studio. No pretending. Just give it as raw as possible. If you listen to our songs it is just so raw. And that’s unique.

BO: So, that day in the studio you had no idea that this was history in the making?

GG: We had no idea. We had not planned to do anything political. Of course we mentioned politicians here and there, and we were also going through some issues with our lives. So it was just a self-expression which came out there and people picked what we were going through unknowingly and it was part of the passion and the situation at that time and we felt that maybe someone spoke through us to come up with that song and bring about the passion of the mood of the country at that time. And so although it was not intended for politics it worked out well at that time.

BO: What impact do you think social networking and technology is going to have on people who are going to make songs a few years from now?

GG: At the time we were doing our music we didn’t have these new forms of technology, but right now if an election happened the public outrage is gonna be on social media more than maybe in music. Social media is gonna play a bigger role because every young person, especially with mobile phones all over, has a social media account or something like that. So the communication exchange, the ideas spreading, even the propaganda, everything, is gonna be on social media, and I think it is something that is gonna have an impact on the next general election. That’s where the fight is going to be.

BO: Do you think you can use this technology to uplift your music.

GG: For publicity, yes, but for selling not really because in Kenya it is not yet that well expounded, but for publicity, for creating ideas, for exchanging, for distributing it, even if it is for free for publicity, social media is still playing a major role, and it will continue to play a major role.

BO: So Gidi Gidi Maji Maji, did that chapter end, are you guys still active?

GG: Gidi Gidi Maji Maji just took a break but unfortunately it has been long. We were so busy with a lot of other stuff, but very soon we will do something.